Legislature(1997 - 1998)
02/05/1998 01:05 PM House RES
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 5, 1998
1:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Joe Green
Representative Irene Nicholia
Representative Reggie Joule
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative William K.(Bill) Williams
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Robin Taylor
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
* HOUSE BILL NO. 168
"An Act relating to use of traditional means of access to assist in
taking game or fish and to traditional means of access for
traditional outdoor activities on land and water set aside for fish
and game purposes; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 168(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 2(RES)
Relating to management of Alaska's wildlife resources.
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 168
SHORT TITLE: TRADITIONAL ACCESS FOR TRADITIONAL ACTIVI
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) MASEK
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
03/05/97 543 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/05/97 543 (H) RESOURCES, STATE AFFAIRS
02/05/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
WAYNE REGELIN, Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526
Telephone: (907) 465-4190
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168.
EDWARD GRASSER, Legislative Assistant
to Representative Masek
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 432
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2679
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168.
CLIFF EAMES, Representative
Alaska Center for the Environment
519 West 8th Avenue, Number 201
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Telephone: (907) 274-3621
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
PATTI SAUNDERS
1233 West 11th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Telephone: (907) 278-9308
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
ED DAVIS
P.O. Box 71616
Anchorage, Alaska 99707
Telephone: (907) 479-7263
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168.
GABE SAM, Director of Wildlife and Parks
Tanana Chiefs Conference, Incorporated
122 1st Avenue
Fairbanks, Alaska 99710
Telephone: (907) 452-8251
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
SARA CALLAGHAN, Representative
Northern Alaskan Environmental Center
218 Driveway Street
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Telephone: (907) 452-5021
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
GINNY WOOD
1819 Muskox Trail
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Telephone: (907) 479-2754
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
CELIA HUNTER
1819 Muskox Trail
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Telephone: (907) 479-2754
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
BOB GREEN, Representative
Alaska Frontier Trappers Association
951 Bunker Hill
Wasilla, Alaska 99654
Telephone: (907) 376-2621
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
ROD ARNO, President
Alaska Outdoor Council
211 4th Street, Suite 302 A
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 463-3830
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
W.L. (RED) DECKER
H.C. 01 Box 6486-D
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Telephone: (907) 745-6784
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
RON SILAS, Vice Chairman
Minto-Nenana Advisory Committee
Address not provided
Telephone: Not provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
PETE SCHAEFFER
P.O. Box 296
Kotzebue, Alaska 99752
Telephone: (907) 442-3467
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
GILBERT HUNTINGTON
Address not provided
Telephone: Not provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
LYNN LEVENGOOD
931 Vide Way
Fairbanks, Alaska 99712
Telephone: (907) 452-5196
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
BILL HAGAR
431 Gaffey Road
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Telephone: (907) 452-6295
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
PAULA PHILLIPS
311 West 15th Terrace
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Telephone: (907) 274-4594
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
TOM MEACHAM
9500 Prospect Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
Telephone: (907) 346-1077
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168.
ELIZABETH HATTON, President
Alaska Quiet Rights Coalition
H.C. 52 Box 8900
Indian, Alaska 99540
Telephone: (907) 653-7649
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 168.
MICHAEL EASTHAM
P.O. Box 475
Homer, Alaska 99603
Telephone: (907) 235-2603
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
GERALD BROOKMAN
715 Muir Avenue
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-9329
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 168.
ROY BURKHART
P.O. Box 204
Willow, Alaska 99688
Telephone: (907) 495-6337
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
DON SHERWOOD, President
Alaska Boating Association
P.O. Box 210430
Anchorage, Alaska 99521
Telephone: (907) 333-6268
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
LEONARD HAIRE
P.O. Box 879030
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
Telephone: (907) 376-6183
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
TOM LOGAN
P.O. Box 520253
Big Lake, Alaska 99652
Telephone: (907) 892-7072
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 168.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-6, SIDE A
Number 0001
CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:05 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Ogan and Dyson. Co-Chairman
Hudson arrived at 1:20 p.m. Representatives Green, Masek, Joule
and Nicholia arrived at 1:06 p.m., 1:10 p.m., and 1:11 p.m.,
respectively.
HB 168 - TRADITIONAL ACCESS FOR TRADITIONAL ACTIVI
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the first order of business was House
Bill No. 168, "An Act relating to use of traditional means of
access to assist in taking game or fish and to traditional means of
access for traditional outdoor activities on land and water set
aside for fish and game purposes; and providing for an effective
date."
Number 0148
WAYNE REGELIN, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,
Department of Fish and Game, explained HB 168 would limit the
ability of the Board of Game to establish control-use areas - areas
that are used to restrict access to lands by hunters. The board
does not have any authority to control access for any purpose
except hunting. Control-use areas have been a valuable tool for
the board for many years. They often provide a diversity of
hunting experiences for the public, protect wildlife populations
and habitats, and reduce user conflicts. Currently, there are 26
control-use areas in the state. The first was established in 1971.
Thirteen were established prior to 1979, and nine have been
established in the last eight years. Eight of the twenty-six
control-use areas are for the purposes of trophy hunting for sheep.
House Bill 168 would not affect the existing control-use areas, but
it would reduce the ability of the board to address the issue of
user conflict when it is the board's responsibility to make
allocation decisions amongst the users. In addition, HB 168 would
limit the Department of Fish and Game's and the Board of Game's
ability to restrict traditional access on state wildlife refuges,
sanctuaries and critical habitat areas, unless it was biologically
essential for the protection of wildlife and an alternative method
of access was available. There is no concern with sanctuaries
because the legislature already authorizes regulations on
restrictions to access in sanctuaries. There is no languages in
the bill that would authorize restriction on access for refuges and
critical habitat areas. The legislature creates the areas for
specific purposes and usually because of public demand. The
Department of Fish and Game then writes a management plan for the
areas that may have certain types of access restrictions. He cited
the Trading Bay Game Refuge was established to protect nesting
water fowl. Hunting is allowed in the fall, but there is a
restriction against motorized use during the nesting season. In
regards to the retroactive section in the bill, there are quite a
number of state refuges, critical habitat areas, and sanctuaries so
it would take a lot of time to revisit the areas.
Number 0630
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the House Resources Standing Committee
achieved a quorum at 1:10 p.m.
Number 0648
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Mr. Regelin, if the traditional
accesses are opened, are there places that would be overbearing to
the point of creating a problem. He wondered whether most of the
areas were of limited access anyway.
Number 0685
MR. REGELIN replied some of the refuges are very remote, such as
Trading Bay, but others are not. The Palmer Hay Flats State Game
Refuge is between Palmer and Anchorage where access is restricted
in the spring to protect the nesting birds.
Number 0731
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered whether HB 168 would potentially open
up the Palmer Hay Flats State Game Refuge.
MR. REGELIN replied it could open it up, potentially. But, he
could not imagine it would not be one that the division would not
be allowed to restrict. He does not know what would happen in the
interim if the bill passed. He wondered whether the division would
have to look at each of the refuges and specific restrictions.
That might not be the intent of the bill, however.
Number 0764
REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA asked Mr. Regelin whether HB 168
would allow for a renewed restriction after the removal of a
restriction.
Number 0802
MR. REGELIN replied some control-use areas have been deleted.
House Bill 168 would require legislative action, depending upon the
purpose for the new restriction.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated it is important to be able to act
fast when a population is low to get the regulations into place.
"You can't really wait for the legislature to convene. And, so, I
guess, that's where I have a problem." She asked Mr. Regelin
whether the Galena control-use area has been successful.
Number 0879
MR. REGELIN replied the Koyukuk control-use near Galena has been in
existence since the mid-1980s. It has been highly successfully.
It limits access into the Three Day Slough to boats only; it
requires leaving the meat on the hindquarters of the bone until
leaving the field; and it requires people to stop at a check
station. There has been very good cooperation between the locals
and non-locals. And, it has kept the harvest level high allowing
for longer seasons.
Number 0990
REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE asked Mr. Regelin whether there is a
management or biological need for this type of legislation.
Number 1016
MR. REGELIN replied it is not necessary for good wildlife
management. It would put another layer of review at the
legislative level.
Number 1053
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked Mr. Regelin in regards to the issue of
subsistence, in terms of co-management and the utilization of local
knowledge, would having a bill like HB 168 on the books limit
issues at the local and regional levels.
Number 1096
MR. REGELIN replied it is possible. Control-use areas have been
used in the past to help resolve conflicts to provide an advantage
to the people that live in the area.
Number 1167
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK, sponsor of HB 168, stated HB 168 was
introduced as a companion bill to HB 23 passed last year. Over the
past three years she has been working to ensure public access to
the common property resources. Due to increasing restrictions on
the general public's ability to gain reasonable access to the fish
and wildlife waters and lands they own, this effort is important
for Alaskans at this time. With the passage of the Alaska National
Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA) in 1980, Alaska had much
of its prime areas put into management (indic.) under control of
the federal land managers. For the most part, these areas are
subjected to very strict controls or restrictions on many
traditional means of accesses. Furthermore, the state itself has
set aside areas for access restriction and, of course, there are
many parts of Alaska where some means of access are left out or
restricted due to the remoteness of the area. In addition,
considering that over 60 percent of Alaska is closed to some form
of traditional access, especially motorized access, it is important
that the legislators move to provide guidelines for managing
agencies. House Bill 168 would not prevent managing agencies from
restricting access in instances of biological concerns. It would
not open lands that are already restricted or shut the door on
managing agencies to create new closed areas. A new area would
have to meet legislative approval only if the prohibition is over
a period of eight months or more. The most important reason to
support HB 168 is to recognize access to lands and waters that are
owned by Alaskans without undue restrictions, to recognize the use
of motorized access for the physically handicapped, and to give
guidance to the managing agencies to strike a true balance between
conflicting uses and accessing public lands and waters.
Number 1346
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked Representative Masek wouldn't there
be a fiscal cost if the legislature was called back into session in
the event of an emergency.
Number 1370
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK replied, "What this bill does...It will not
preclude biological concerns that are happening. It's going to be
case-by-case at...It shows that it's going to be a closure of more
than eight months then they'd have to come back to the legislative
body for approval. And, I don't believe that there would be that
large of a fiscal note attached since we will be in session. And,
if it happens it means they could shut it down for three months
then another three months then another three month then they could
do that. And, I'm sure there will be cases where they wouldn't
have to shut it down for a period of more than eight months so that
should answer your question, I hope."
Number 1428
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied it did not answer her question.
Number 1436
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON asked whether he is correct to infer that
the Administration does not have a problem with the bill.
Number 1465
MR. REGELIN replied he has not had time to meet with the Governor's
staff for the status of the bill. It is a bill that the division
could live with, with modifications. The system is not broken,
however. There is good value in the control-use areas in terms of
resolving conflicts. He would hate for the board to lose such a
valuable tool. He cited a recent area was controlled on the Kenai
Peninsula that improved the quality of the hunt. There was no
biological reason to control the area, but it was popular with most
of the hunters, and it made the hunt more pleasant for the vast
majority of the hunters. In reference to an emergency closure, the
Department of Fish and Game has emergency authority to close
seasons with a twenty-four hour notice. Control-use areas are
usually not used on an emergency basis, however.
Number 1550
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated HB 168 is concerned about the issues
surrounding Game Management Unit 13, a very popular area. He asked
Mr. Regelin whether there is a way to achieve legislative oversight
without getting involved in every area. He is concerned about the
bill creating a lot of additional legislation and micro-management
when it is trying to get a handle on the Board of Game, when it
exceeds the wishes of constituents.
Number 1652
MR. REGELIN replied Game Management Unit 13 is the most popular
hunting area in Alaska. It currently has five small control-use
areas. Open access is necessary for the department to achieve its
game management goals in the unit. The requests to limit access in
the unit are because it has become a very popular winter snowmobile
area. But, most of the snowmobile use is high in elevation and
does not impact the wildlife resources or habitat. Therefore, at
this, time a restriction is not necessary. The Department of Fish
and Game will continue to look into the issue, however.
MR. REGELIN further stated boards that struggle with control-use
areas pass about 1 out of 15 proposals. They are adopted only when
there is large public support from the local advisory committees
and hunters. In terms of the legislature getting involved, it
could always overrule a regulation that a board passed.
Number 1885
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN replied a proposed constitutional amendment to
overrule a regulation passed by a board was voted down by the
people.
Number 1893
MR. REGELIN stated the legislature can pass a statute that
indicates an open area. And, the Board of Game can not pass a
regulation that would conflict with the statute.
Number 1943
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK said, with the state growing and the
increasing amount of people accessing lands, control is necessary,
not response to a big public outcry. House Bill 168 is trying to
give more power back to the legislature instead of the boards.
Number 2028
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated the legislature is getting into
micro-management with this bill. "Yes, we are elected officials,
but we're not the biologists. As far as I know, not one person in
the House of Representatives has a biology degree and has
background and experience in biology of our wildlife resources."
It is wrong to micro-manage the Board of Game.
Number 2073
CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON asked Mr. Regelin whether the bill only
would apply to state lands.
MR. REGELIN replied, "No." It would apply to all Alaskan lands.
There are control-use areas on federal lands as well.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Regelin whether the bill would apply
to federal and private lands.
MR. REGELIN replied, "Yes."
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Regelin what stimulates a public
outcry for a closure, noise from all terrain vehicles, for example.
Number 2111
MR. REGELIN replied the Board of Game passed a restriction on air
boats around Fairbanks in certain areas primarily because of noise
and changes to the habitat. It is still very controversial and is
going to be considered at the board meeting in February. The Board
of Game also passed a restriction in Unit 20E, north of Tok, to
limit all terrain vehicles to the trails and to lengthen the
season.
Number 2184
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Regelin whether the Tok closure was
more a matter of habitat protection rather than noise.
MR. REGELIN replied it was a matter of limiting the harvest for a
longer season.
Number 2199
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated, as far as Mr. Regelin knows, the
Administration feels that the standards would permit the Department
of Fish and Game to continue to manage. He asked Mr. Regelin
whether he believed the Administration would not accept the bill on
that basis.
Number 2219
MR. REGELIN replied, "I don't have the ability to speak with what
the Governor might or might not do." The Department of Fish and
Game could work with the bill the way it is written because of the
time limits and sizes. He was more concerned about the refuges in
terms of practicality, and because it is a valuable tool for the
Board of Game to help resolve conflicts.
Number 2281
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked how much is 640 acres in terms of square
miles.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied 640 acres is a square mile.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN referred to page 2, (4), "expressly authorized
under this title; of", and asked whether there was any other area
in Title 16 that the subsection would reference.
Number 2345
EDWARD GRASSER, Legislative Assistant to Representative Masek,
Alaska State Legislature, replied it would refer to areas that may
have closures or restrictions placed on them like in refuges or
critical habitats that are closed.
Number 2353
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, then it describes a game refuge that
already has a closure and is already in the title.
Number 2360
MR. GRASSER referred to page 2, line 28 and explained it would be
necessary to remove the language "Department of Natural
Resources,". House Bill 23 by Representative Masek covered the
Department of Natural Resources last year. It would be redundant
to have it in HB 168.
Number 2380
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to page 2, line 17 and wondered
whether "1997" is an oversight considering that the bill was
introduced last year.
MR. GRASSER stated it would be up to Representative Masek, the
sponsor of the bill. He is not aware of anything taking place
since January 1, 1997, anyway. It could be changed to "1998", if
the sponsor or committee so desired.
MR. GRASSER stated, in reference to federal lands mentioned
earlier, a person can not take an all terrain vehicle into the
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) because it is prohibited by
the federal land manager. "So, even if the department said you
could or the Board of Game said you could or the legislature said
you could, you can't. And, you can't take them onto private lands
either, unless you have the permission of the property owner."
Number 2420
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said state law is supreme to private land owners.
He wondered, if the state put in a control-use area and it
incorporated private land, just because it is private land does not
mean people would be able to run an all terrain vehicle on it.
MR. GRASSER replied, "Correct." The state can not tell a property
owner that people are going to start running all over his or her
land with an all terrain vehicle.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said the state can prohibit it.
MR. GRASSER replied the state can not prohibit a land owner from
operating an all terrain vehicle on his or her own land. The
Endangered Species Act has those types of implications. He was not
sure whether it was true for state law, however.
MR. REGELIN said the state can not prohibit a landowner from using
an all terrain vehicle on his or her property.
Number 2458
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated on Native lands there are control-use areas
and the state reserves the right to manage....
TAPE 98-6, SIDE B
Number 0000
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN continued. The general public can not come in
there and hunt. He asked whether that is a correct assumption.
Number 0010
MR. GRASSER replied, "Correct." The owners and corporate
shareholders would be able to still use the lands.
Number 0017
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK made a motion to delete the language
"Department of Natural Resources," on page 2, line 28. There being
no objection, it was so moved.
Number 0038
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered whether there would be a problem with
the Department of Fish and Game because of the language in the bill
"After January 1, 1997". He wondered whether it should be changed
to "1998".
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Regelin whether there has been any
action since January 1, 1997 that the bill would affect.
Number 0066
MR. REGELIN replied, "I'm not sure."
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered whether it would cause any heartburn
to change the date from "1997" to "1998".
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK stated she did not have a problem with it.
Number 0084
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to change the language from
"1997" to "1998" on page 2, lines 14 and 17.
Number 0092
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked whether the motion would also apply to
"1997" on page 3, line 23.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to change the language from
"1997" to "1998" on page 2, lines 14 and 17; and page 3, line 23.
There being no objection, it was so moved.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN opened the meeting up to the teleconference
network.
Number 0122
CLIFF EAMES, Representative, Alaska Center for the Environment,
testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He stated he would
focus on the natural quiet questions and user-conflict issues
because the bill would drastically restrict the ability of the
agencies to resolve user conflicts. House Bill 168 is the third in
a pattern of bills (SB 35 and HB 23) that would discriminate
against people seeking natural quiet, including private cabin and
home owners. It would also discriminates against traditional means
of access such as, foot and paddle. It would also make it very
difficult for the agencies to right a gross imbalance between areas
open to motorized uses and areas managed for quiet recreation. In
addition, these bills would tell us that 104 million acres of state
owned land is not enough to provide for both types of uses -
motorized and non-motorized. Non-motorized users would be free to
use the areas, but not enjoy it. It is unfair to argue that there
are choices because "what if I wanted to pray in the church of my
choice, my local church, or read a book or magazine at the library,
or go to see a movie or play at the local theater, and in all of
these places I find that there are speakers in all four corners of
these locations blaring out heavy metal rock music? These places
would have become so unpleasant to me that I would have left them,
yes, voluntarily. But, I am displaced from them. It's my choice,
but don't we really have an obligation to provide for everyone, to
provide quiet churches, libraries and theaters, as well as noisy
ones. And, to provide for some quiet public lands, as well as
noisy public lands." He announced the center very much opposes the
bill. The ability to resolve conflicts is a tool that land
managers should have; they have not used it indiscriminately.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN acknowledged that Senator Robin Taylor has been in
the audience and has been listening intensely for quite some time.
Number 0286
PATTI SAUNDERS testified via teleconference in Anchorage. She is
opposed to the bill not to protect the resources or for the balance
between quiet users and motorized users, but because it is bad
government. There are three branches of government for very good
reasons. The administrative agencies are suppose to administer
which is what the bills tries to undo. The bill is not practicable
or reasonable. There is no biological or management reason for the
bill. There have not been any examples of actual abuse of the
power delegated to the agencies. There are only statements
regarding the abuse of authority which is not a good basis for
legislation. In addition, a better government is a government that
tries to resolve local issues at a local level because the local
land managers and the users tend to have the most information and
concern. It is not a good idea to take it away from the local
level and give it to the legislature in Juneau where there is less
information. House Bill 168 is not justified by any actual
problem; there is nothing to fix. There is no need to fix a system
that is not broken. It does not provide any guidance to the land
managers as suggested earlier in regards to a balance of use.
There is no evidence that there is an imbalance at this point
against motorized uses. She asked the committee members to reject
the bill.
Number 0428
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Ms. Saunders whether she is aware of how
many acres are off limits to motorize vehicles in the state.
MS. SAUNDERS replied, "No." She does not have that information at
her disposal.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, he believes, it is quite a bit. It would
be an interesting fact to bring up for the discussion.
Number 0455
ED DAVIS testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He is speaking
as a private property owner, and as a member of the Alaska
Wilderness Recreation (Indis.) He lives on a trail network in
Fairbanks where private property notices are posted between two
public areas. The residents welcome the hikers, mushers and
skiers, and ask the motorized vehicles to keep off of the property.
Last week, a resident discovered that the borough is trying to come
up with an easement to connect the public areas, but it would not
be able to prohibit motorized vehicles from traveling on the trails
because of a state law. He suggested creating a multiple-use state
network of trails with major arteries between the cities that would
be open to all types of uses. The branches would be used for
skiers or whatever. He asked that the laws be corrected so that
the residents could grant an easement while still having their
private property rights honored.
Number 0640
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated his testimony is on a different subject
matter than the issue in HB 168, however, he would take note of his
comments.
Number 0673
GABE SAM, Director of Wildlife and Parks, Tanana Chiefs Conference,
Incorporated (TCC), testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He
announced TCC opposes HB 168. It would not only limit the Board of
Game, but it would also create a user conflict with local hunters
and non-local hunters. The (indis.) control-use area has been very
successful. The moose population is coming back up. In regards to
the air boats mentioned earlier, they are impacting other areas and
waterfowl because they are able to go further back. The bill would
impact the Board of Game from successfully managing the wildlife
resources.
Number 0771
SARA CALLAGHAN, Representative, Northern Alaskan Environmental
Center, testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. The Northern
Center opposes HB 168. It replaces sensible management with an
unneeded legislative restriction. Unrestricted motorized access
would pose a direct threat to wildlife and wildlife habitat
affecting some of the state's most important wildlife areas
including refuges and sanctuaries. It would also hinder ongoing
preservation and management efforts. In addition, private
individuals, many local economic enterprises that depend on silent
and serene experiences, subsistence, and recreational hunting and
fishing would also be affected. The Northern Center also feels
that HB 168 is going to replace the careful piece-by-piece
management with an all inclusive law. Lastly, HB 168 proposes no
findings, therefore, it is not resolving any issue. It is an
overreaching legislative solution to a problem that does not
necessarily even exist. It does not justify curtailing resource
management authorities.
Number 0873
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there was a huge outpouring of people in
opposition to a proposal that was brought forth to close Unit 13 to
traditional access and motorized vehicles.
Number 0905
MS. CALLAGHAN replied there is definitely support on both sides.
The bill, however, deprives people of a fair chance to work out
their differences for a suitable solution.
Number 0936
GINNY WOOD testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. She is
representing herself, but has served for twenty years on the North
Slope Borough Trails Commission, and is presently on the Governor's
Track Commission. When she came to Alaska in 1947 the total
population was about 180,000. Everyone could do whatever they
wanted anywhere, except robe or shot someone, without causing much
impact on the natural environment, resources, wildlife or each
other. Now, sportsmen want the same freedoms with few restrictions
or responsibilities. They want the government off of their backs,
yet want the government to provide roads, trails, campgrounds,
services and maintenance of the facilities. The clock can not be
turned back, and we can not have the freedoms of the frontier with
no rules.
Number 1139
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK stated HB 168 would not open more accesses.
It talks about existing accesses.
Number 1169
CELIA HUNTER testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. She is
very much opposed to HB 168 for all of the reasons heard so far.
In addition, the bill messes around with the whole concept of the
traditional use definition. Technology is driving the change, but
morality and conscientiousness has not accompanied it. The big
fear of a bill like HB 168. It puts the legislature in between
management and the resource when it is not capable of such a thing.
Number 1293
BOB GREEN, Representative, Alaska Frontier Trappers Association,
testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. The association represents
about 150 families that favor HB 168. The members depend upon road
vehicles for transportation to get to their home sites, cabins or
trap lines. A prudent person acts before a problem develops which
is what HB 168 does. Politics are entering into the professional
offices of fish and game biologists influencing what is happening.
People get discouraged when they hear that things are happening
beyond their control so they turn to their legislators for relief.
Areas will be out right closed to off-road vehicles if something is
not done. The association is concerned mainly about access to
allow a person to do his or her thing. We are all concerned about
biological and environmental reasons and the bill addresses the
concerns.
Number 1431
ROD ARNO, President, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), testified via
teleconference in Mat-Su. The AOC support HB 168. He is amazed of
the lack of understanding of those that oppose the bill. It is an
issue of allowing traditional means of access by hunters, fishers
and trappers into areas open to those activities. It is extremely
important that hunters are able to distribute themselves over a
wide area in order that they do not concentrate their efforts near
existing roads. It not only provides more quality experiences, but
it also distributes the use and the hunters out on the terrain. In
rural areas there are numerous trails where villagers access the
areas by snowmobiles distributing the harvest. He urges the House
of Representatives to pass the bill.
Number 1565
W.L. (RED) DECKER testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. He
represents many of the hunters who have access to Game Management
Unit 13. In regards to the issue of Unit 13, there are no maps
made up of the archeological area out of Swede Lake. We also have
a problem with a conflict of interest in the Board of Game. A
great many of the members are either in air taxi services or are
guides. According to the state constitution, the caribou heard
area in Unit 13 should be open to the people of the state for
motorized and non-motorized access. Motorized means a track rig,
boat, 4-wheeler, or swamp buggy. An aircraft is not included and
it is definitely not an on-road vehicle creating another conflict
of interest. For 30 years most of us have hunted Unit 13 for
survival and there are quite a few of us who are disabled. He
finally found a cabin in the area, but would not be able to hunt
and take out the same day, according to a rule they were trying to
pass. House Bill 168 is very good and we want to thank
Representative Masek for brining the issue forward to help us. In
addition, any hearings and meetings should be held in the area of
Unit 13, not out in some other area.
Number 1833
RON SILAS, Vice Chairman, Minto-Nenana Advisory Committee,
testified via teleconference in Minto. He is also speaking on
behalf of the village of Minto. We are opposed to HB 168. It is
not broke so why fix it.
Number 1938
PETE SCHAEFFER testified via teleconference in Kotzebue. The bill
does not keep up with the regulatory authority needed by the Board
of Game. He is also concerned about the administrative load. He
is opposed to HB 168.
Number 2014
GILBERT HUNTINGTON testified via teleconference in Galena. He is
opposed to HB 168. It has the appearance of fixing a problem that
is not there. The board process has worked very well for years and
it will continue to work effectively without interference. The
proposal would hinder any thoughts of relaxing control-use area
restrictions. It would set the present control-use areas in stone
in as much as the legislature and its' jack hammer would allow it
to be. The people in Galena consider the bill another attack on
their distance. They have relied on the control-use areas to
protect them. He is a big game guide and lives in a control-use
area, therefore, he sees the value of it.
Number 2174
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated HB 168 would not restrict any relaxing of
control-use areas.
Number 2213
MR. HUNTINGTON stated the bill would hinder any thought to relax a
control-use area because they would not be able to get it back.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated it is a good point.
Number 2278
LYNN LEVENGOOD testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He is
also surprised by the lack of understanding of the issues by many
of the prior speakers. The system is broke, it needs to be fixed.
Alaska Statute 16.05.255 provides no legal authority for the board
to zone. The statute provides no legal authority to the board
other than to biologically manage Alaska's wildlife resources.
Thus, to create a control-use area when there is an abundance of
wildlife supersedes the Board of Game's authority which is what HB
168 is aimed at. The bill is just a baby step in trying to address
the problem. He thinks it should be amended to preclude any
regulations that are not biologically necessary to prevent
discrimination.
TAPE 98-7, SIDE A
Number 0000
MR. LEVENGOOD continued. He would make the bill retroactive.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Levengood to state for the record what
he does for a living.
MR. LEVENGOOD replied he is a self-employed attorney in Fairbanks.
He is also the Executive Director of the Alaska Wildlife
Conservation Association.
Number 0057
BILL HAGAR testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He does not
believe in granting individual use. The common use clause of the
constitution prohibits the state from granting to any person or
groups privilege or monopolistic access to a natural resource. It
has been tested time and again in the "supreme" court. He is very
much in favor of HB 168.
Number 0155
PAULA PHILLIPS testified via teleconference in Anchorage. She is
a wilderness recreation tour guide and lives in Anchorage. She
just came over from an eco-tourism conference - a conference that
brought together small-scale tour operators whose livelihoods
depended on preserving wilderness values including quiet
recreational opportunities. She brought over nine letters that
have been faxed to the House Resources Standing Committee in
opposition to HB 168 including letters from the Alaska Wild Land
Adventures, Copper Ore Adventures, and the Alaska Wilderness
Recreation and Tourism Association. We do not approve of tying the
hands of the authorities charged with protecting these wild areas.
We agree that the legislature should encourage responsible agencies
and the public to work together. The clients of the businesses
that depend on a wild and quiet Alaska want the opportunity to view
undisturbed wildlife in a natural setting; it is why they come to
Alaska.
Number 0265
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced there are 65 million acres set aside for
non-motorized use in the state of Alaska.
Number 0294
TOM MEACHAM testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He is a
former member of the Board of Game and a member of the Quiet Rights
Coalition. Upon examination, almost all of the lands closed to
motorized uses are federal lands, not state lands. The state has
a responsibility through the legislature to meet the needs of all
state residents for recreation and remote homesite use. In fact,
about 5 to 10 percent of the state lands are closed to motorized
uses. As a member of the Board of Game he realized that it
performs a very necessary function in resolving user conflicts.
The legislature does not have the stomach to do it and, in fact,
user conflicts would not be resolved by the passage of HB 168.
They would be resolved for all time in one direction only -
everything open so that more dominant uses prevail. The
restrictions on motorized use in areas are not necessarily for the
resolution of conflicts, but to protect the habitat and wildlife.
The most dangerous part of HB 168 is the inability to control the
permanent damaging effects of wheeled vehicles. Unit 13 is a prime
example. There is a growing network of trails that will scare the
landscape for decades even if the use stops tomorrow. The outcry
in regards to Unit 13 was on both sides of the fence. It was not
completely against any further restrictions. This is where the
Board of Game provides a valuable function as a sounding board to
resolve these types of issues on a regional or local basis. In
addition, there needs to be a better definition of "all terrain
vehicle" because recreational mining is listed as one of the
recreational opportunities for access. Is the use of caterpillar
tractors and bulldozers to blaze trails on public lands a form of
all terrain vehicle access, he wondered. There needs to be an
upper weight limit for a definition of all terrain vehicle,
otherwise there will be damage to the lands for generations to
come. In closing, the state has long desired to open up (ANWR) for
oil drilling and exploration under the pretext of knowing how to
protect and preserve its resources. Thus, a bill like HB 168 and
its predecessors last year shots us in the foot in the eyes of
outsiders who will be making decisions on opening up ANWR.
Number 0617
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated HB 168 deals with Title 16, the portion
regarding the Department of Natural Resources has been deleted;
therefore, recreational mining is not covered. In regards to
damage to the environment, some all terrain vehicles do not put any
more pressure on the ground than a human foot print, while others
exceed it greatly. He cited Section 16.05.255 and stated there is
nothing in statute that gives the Board of Game authority to
regulate access other than for biological reasons and the bill is
trying to keep within the parameters.
Number 0695
ELIZABETH HATTON, President, Alaska Quiet Rights Coalition,
testified via teleconference in Anchorage. She supports some of
the prior testimony. And in addition, we have a number of hunters
and fishers who want to join the coalition because the reasons why
they hunt or fish are disappearing. There are a number of hunters
who feel that the animals are moving further away because of the
pressures of motorized hunting. There are lots of fisher who are
very, very upset about jet skis and air boats wrecking their quiet
fishing experience. Although the bill talks about tradition
access, most of us think of it as walking. We have a large number
of folks out here opposed to HB 168 because they feel that they are
losing the Alaska that have enjoyed.
Number 0859
MICHAEL EASTHAM testified via teleconference in Homer. He is
appalled at some of the previous testifiers today. They are very
self-oriented. There are a lot of public lands that are shrinking
to outdoor recreational vehicles use. How much should we give away
so that people have a quiet place to walk when there are thousands
and thousands of acres to do that on, he wondered. In addition,
there are a lot of handicapped people that can not walk the lands
so that recreational vehicles are necessary. He represents the
snowmobile club in the Homer-Anchor Point area that very much
favors HB 168. Ninety-four percent of Alaskans recreate in the
state. It would be a shame to see more state lands put into areas
where we could not do that.
Number 0975
GERALD BROOKMAN testified via teleconference in Homer. He listed
the previous speakers that he agreed with. He asked the committee
members to please read his statement that he faxed earlier to the
House Resources Standing Committee.
Number 1057
ROY BURKHART testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. He just got
a proposal from the Department of Fish and Game on the Alaska joint
boards of fishery and read the provision dealing with the
accommodation of persons with disabilities. In regards to
testimony earlier, there is no regulation that mentions a quality
hunt. It does establish the means, methods employed and pursuit of
resource conservation and goals. Older Alaskans rely heavily on
motorized vehicles for access such as veterans. It is important to
pass the bill because the Board of Game has no balance; the country
is run on checks and balances. In regards to Unit 13, the Alaska
Boating Association requested a copy of the complaints, but they
were destroyed so that a copy was not obtained. In regards to
Title 16, there is one place that a person with physical disability
is granted a special dispensation - Units 1 to 5 in Southeast. The
person has to be wheelchair bound and can shot from a boat. It is
the only exception given to anybody with a physical disability. It
is totally wrong. In regards to the noise, he drives an air boat
but the noise does not bother him because he wears ear protectors.
"If they're out there, they can do the same thing." His boat is no
louder than a gun shot.
Number 1295
DON SHERWOOD, President, Alaska Boating Association (ABA),
testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He has been a resident
of Alaska for over 30 years. He is also a disabled American
veteran. He has heard only so far greed. The ABA has always tried
to create a fair and equitable way of motorized access on our state
public lands and waterways. But, the Department of Natural
Resources continues in its off-handed way to impose unnecessary and
unscientific restrictions so that it is now necessary to protect
the motorized public. It has to seize or the citizens of Alaska
will continue to be crowed into a less and less area just so the
preservationist can take away more areas from human use. With less
than 1 percent of the land in use today, it is nothing but an
attack on our ability to develop both renewable and natural
resources. With hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation as a
primary reason for so many to come to the state, it is now
necessary to protect these rights. We think HB 168 will do it for
us.
Number 1402
LEONARD HAIRE testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. He is a
business owner in the valley and a boat manufacturer. Every time
a restriction that is not warranted is passed, it makes it a lot
harder to be a businessman. The only reason for a restriction in
the Tanana Flats and Sleetmute, for example, is because somebody
asked for one. The bill is way over due.
Number 1482
TOM LOGAN testified via teleconference in Mat-Su. We need to pass
the bill. He wholeheartedly supports it. He cited a community
council where the membership was new. By the same token, the
Governor could appoint all quiet-zone people to the Board of Game
then we would all be up a creek.
Number 1536
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to change "1997" to "1998" on
page 1, line 7. There being no objection, it was so moved.
Number 1559
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to move HB 168, as amended, from
the committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero
fiscal note.
Number 1566
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA and REPRESENTATIVE JOULE objected
simultaneously.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated the bill is not needed at this time.
She does not see why the legislature is taking a local control away
from the public. The best biologists are the people in the local
areas. The reason the Board of Game was put in place is to do this
type of job. The legislature gave it authority to work on issues
like this. The legislature does not have the time to work on
issues like this. It does not belong in this body. According to
the testimony, the problem exists pretty much in only Unit 13.
Therefore, the bill should only pertain to Unit 13 and should not
include the whole state. The authority should be in the local
communities where the issue are. That is why there are local
advisory committees and regional councils - to make the system
work. The legislature should not involve itself in the issue; it
should be left to the public.
Number 1709
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated the legislature can not pass a law that
would not be applicable to all areas of the state. In addition, HB
168 would provide the Department of Fish and Game and the Board of
Game an adequate opportunity for biological exceptions to protect
game.
Number 1754
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA referred to page 2, line 3 and stated
authorization belongs with the public, not the legislature. The
legislature has enough on its plate. The legislature does not have
the time to go through all the biological information and talk to
the people involved with an issue. "You probably don't realize how
extensive this really is. We're putting another burden onto the
legislature that we don't need." In addition, there does not
appear to be a need for the bill, if 1 out of 15 proposals are
adopted by the Board of Game for a control-use area. The
legislature has more important things to work on than to bother
with an issue that the Board of Game is authorized to work on.
Number 1817
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated the legislature delegates authority to the
Board of Game. It is certainly within the legislature's authority
to take it back.
Number 1831
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to Section 16.05.794(a)(3) and stated
it applies to both fish and game. It gives a safeguard to the
Boards of Game and Fisheries. "What I think this is intending to
do, and the reason I'm supporting it, is that we have a beautiful
state that is only accessible by the very wealthy. If it's not on
the road system and we can't access it in a traditional manner,
then we keep getting less and less and less use of the largest
state in the union. And that's wrong."
Number 1881
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE stated if it isn't broke then don't fix it.
In regards to Unit 13, it is an issue, but the Department of Fish
and Game is continuing to look at it to allow access. It shows a
system, while not perfect, that when there is an outcry people will
listen. The same process seems to happen in the legislature as
well.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN called for a roll call vote. Representatives
Dyson, Green, Masek, Hudson and Ogan voted in favor of moving the
bill. Representatives Joule and Nicholia voted against moving the
bill. Therefore, CSHB 168(RES) moved from the House Resources
Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 1989
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN adjourned the House Resources Standing Committee
meeting at 3:18 p.m.
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